00:00 Unique hobbies make people interesting and memorable

04:14 Veronika's hobby is surfing

09:46 Hobbies without goals or objectives

13:12 Sam loves football and self-improvement

22:21 Overcoming fear is crucial for happiness

24:41 Explore physical hobbies to avoid screen time

34:14 Our childhood hobbies

39:17 Team sports are great hobbies

41:31 Hobbies are great for socializing without alcohol

The Bridging Borders Podcast

Episode 15

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Veronika: 00:00:16

Hey, Sam. I'm doing great. I'm super excited for today's episode because today

we're going to talk about hobbies and how to find a new hobby as an adult.

Veronika: 00:01:28

Does he still do curling?

Sam: 00:00:26

Yeah, I'm a little bit scared about this episode because I think you have a cool

hobby, and I don't have any unique or interesting hobbies, and hobbies are

actually something that sets people apart from other people, and it can make

you seem or are a lot more interested or interesting. Sorry. As a person. So when

you find out someone has a unique or cool hobby, it's quite rememberable and

you can remember them. And I remember I met one of my friends once, and he

told me that he started curling. And I don't know if you know what curling is, but

it's one of those winter sport, olympic sports where they push that circular thing

down the ice and someone has, like, a broom, and they're, like, brooming it. And I

thought, that's so weird. How did you start that hobby? I've never known anyone

to do that before, and that happened ten years ago, and it stuck in my mind ever

since and whenever I hear someone talking about that, which is not often, to be

honest, I remember my friend Howard.

Sam: 00:01:30

I have no idea. The next time I'll ask him. Next time I see him, I will ask him. But I

don't know.

Veronika: 00:01:35

Ten years later, he became a professional.

Veronika: 00:01:42

Maybe. But, yeah, you said that I have a cool hobby. So I guess you were referring

to surfing because a few years ago, I started surfing here in Mexico. It's been a

dream of mine, for sure. Growing up, I always wanted to try surfing. I remember

when I was a kid, I watched so many documentaries and just movies about

surfing, and I was just . I wanted to try surfing so bad. And obviously, when

I moved to Mexico, I was so happy that I can finally do it here. So I went to a surf

camp two years ago. One and a half, I would say. Yeah, one and a half year ago.

And it was hard, to be honest. It was my first time surfing. And I would say the

most challenging thing about surfing is the mental aspect of it, because

sometimes it gets scary. You have to swim good or at least feel comfortable in

the water because the waves are going to kind of cover you, cover your head. You

have to be comfortable drinking some of the water, the sea water, the ocean

water and sometimes it just psychologically, you just feel like you can't do it

anymore. Like it's so hard. It's physically challenging. It's mentally challenging.

Obviously, you get a lot of on your legs, everywhere. Yeah. And if you're

not careful enough, unfortunately, that was my first ever experience. The

surfboard hit my nose really bad, and because I didn't cover up my face, and

that's something that they teach you, the instructors always tell you when you're

in the water, make sure you always cover your face because it can happen. And it

did happen to me, so it was pretty painful. I thought I broke my nose, but I didn't.

But, yeah, it was very painful. And then the second time I went surfing, it was a

year ago, and I already felt a lot more comfortable. I felt a lot more confident on

the board, but it was still hard. It's definitely not easy. You feel exhausted. I

remember I woke up every single day at like 06:00 a.m. To go to my surf class.

And then by one or 02:00 p.m. I was completely dead. I was so tired and I had to

every single day. But it's fun. I like it because it's challenging. I'm on

the water, so it's a lot of fun. Would you ever try surfing, Sam?

in awe

bruises

take a nap

Sam: 00:01:38

Yeah, maybe I'll see him in the Winter Olympics.

Sam: 00:04:14

I think I have tried surfing when I was a lot younger, because when I was at

secondary school, we went on a school trip to, like, an adventure camp place,

and it was in the UK, so I can't imagine surfing in the UK is as good as surfing in

cc

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Useful expressions

and words: in awe bruises take a nap

Useful expressions

and words: by default

Veronika: 00:05:24

Yeah, no, I get it. Yeah. I guess people do romanticize surfing a lot. I think my

understanding of it is because it is hard, not everyone can do it. As you said, it is

hard to stand up on the board. To be able to even surf, you have to have a

different skill already. You have to know how to swim. So , that's the

first thing. If you don't know how to swim, if you're afraid of the ocean, if you're

afraid of the water, a lot of people, for example, they can swim when they can

touch the bottom, for example, in the swimming pool, they feel comfortable. But

out there in the ocean, obviously it's too deep. Like you can't surf when it's not

deep enough. So all of those things are, you have to go through all of these kind

of hurdles or like mental hurdles or physical challenges. You have to learn how to

swim and only then can you try surfing. But that's also something that I had to

learn because as a kid I never actually learned how to swim, unfortunately. So I

learned how to swim when I was 20-21, 20-22. I was like practicing more and

more. I took swimming classes and I became very comfortable in the water.

Before that, I was afraid of the ocean, I couldn't swim well. So, yeah, it was

definitely learning curve for me.

by default

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Australia or Mexico or somewhere like that, because it's freezing, you have to

wear a wetsuit. But I can't really remember too much of it, to be honest. But I

think it was fun. I don't know if I ever actually stood up on the board, which

you're supposed to do. Yeah, I'm sure not many people actually have a successful

first attempt at surfing, do they? But, I don't know. I wouldn't say no. If someone

asked me if I was on holiday and they said, there's some surfing, would you like

to do it? I wouldn't say no. It looks pretty fun, actually and it looks pretty cool as

well. It's one of those hobbies where if you say you surf, you're like, wow, okay,

that's pretty cool. It's like skateboarding when I was younger, I really wanted to

skateboard, but I never did because all my friends rode BMX's instead, and that's

what I did. But I always wanted to skateboard because it looks cool.

Sam: 00:06:50

Yeah, that sounds quite strange for me, because in the UK, most people know

how to swim because when we're at school, you spend maybe two years of going

swimming once a week, minimum. So even if you didn't have swimming lessons

when were a kid, or you didn't go on holiday or whatever, and there was a

swimming pool, most people still learn to swim in school, but my dad is not a

very strong swimmer because he had a bad experience when he was younger, so

he went to lessons when he was probably like 40 something, actually. But he still

gets scared not swimming in swimming pools, but swimming in the sea. Like

when we're on holiday, he doesn't go too deep into the sea because he still has

that fear. And I think it's very psychological, actually. When you're a kid, you just

don't really care and you're not worried about anything, so you don't really think

hh

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of the bad things that could go wrong. But when you're an adult, especially the

sea, the sea is actually really scary if you're on a boat in the middle of the ocean,

of the sea, and you're just looking around. You're like, if I fall in now, there's no

one here to save me. So. Yeah, I can understand that. So can you surf regularly,

or is it something that you do sporadically?

Veronika: 00:08:06

I would say more sporadically just because I like to travel. And every time I think

about, oh, where I want to go, do I want to go to the beach, or do I want to

explore a different place? Yeah, I choose always somewhere else, just because I

want to visit so many different places. And obviously, for surfing, for any skill, I

would say the more you practice it, obviously, the better you get, the faster you

improve. But I feel like, for me, the frequency with which I surf is perfect. For me,

it's like, once a year. Once a year for a week or two is great. It's great for me to try

to improve a little bit more, because I remember my last trip, I started to learn

how to turn the board. So that was great. It was a completely different

experience because I could already feel the board a lot more. So, obviously, first

you learn how to stand up. You stand up, you feel scared, like your legs are

shaking. You're like, what should I do? Where do I go? And then you learn how to

turn the board a little bit, like, a little bit to the side. To that side. Because

sometimes it depends on the waves. Sometimes you don't actually have to go

straight, and it's better if you don't, because you have to serve the wave. And

most often than not, the wave is not 100% straight. It's either going right or left.

So you have to kind of press the board. But it reminds me so much of

snowboarding, and I snowboard a lot, too. So that's why this movement, the feet.

Yeah, it's very similar, I would say.

And do you have any hobbies that you do just for the sake of it, where there is

not maybe, like, an objective or a goal of trying to get better? So, for example, I

play chess online occasionally, and in the past, I've played it a lot more than I do

now. But with chess, and you're playing online competitively, there's, like, a rank

attached to your name, and the aim is to win the game. And kind of everyone's

big objective is to kind of get better at chess. But I watched a video recently, and

it was about self improvement and the point of self improvement, and they

mentioned in that that people sometimes. Well, people are constantly doing

things just to kind of optimize or to get better. And we have lost the art of just

doing things for the sake of just doing them. So even going on a walk now, if it's

like a 20 minutes walk, I'll start my apple watch, and I'll be tracking the walk, or

people track their steps. So everything that we're doing is being monitored or

we're thinking about how to get better and some hobies, like the gym, for

example, are quite clearly progression based. So do you have any hobbies that

you do just for the sake of it or just to do for fun?

Sam: 00:09:46

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Veronika: 00:11:07

Yeah. Right now, every single hobby I do is just . It's just for fun.

But in the past, yes, I was this person, like the person you just described. Every

single hobby I approach from this competitive , maybe it comes from my

childhood, because I did gymnastics competitively for a very long time, and then I

did track competitively again. So for me, every new sport, especially sport, I was

like, I have to get better. I have to get better. If next time I'm not better, it's not

worth it. I think for me, it took a lot of therapy, obviously, because at one point, I

realized that I was not happy. Like, I went to surf, and I just felt exhausted.

Instead of feeling refreshed and like, oh, my God, I tried something new. I fulfilled

my dream, my lifelong dream. I felt like I wasn't enough, or I felt like my surfing

skills were not that great. And then it was like, oh, my God, I just feel exhausted.

Like, I don't feel happy at all. And that's obviously something that I talked about

with my therapist and this realization that I was doing something wrong and that,

in reality, for me right now, for example, surfing, snowboarding, recently, I started

doing ceramics, like pottery, making my own cups and plates and stuff like that.

Right now, I just go there, and my class is, like, 2 hours long, and I just spend it

doing whatever it is I want. If I make the ugliest cup ever, I don't care, because for

me, it's not ugly. For me, it's the most beautiful cup ever, and I'm so happy, and I

made it. And it's just for fun. Solely for fun. Yeah. Every single thing. Every new

hobby I try right now, I always approach it with this fun mindset. Like, I just want

to have fun. I just want to have a good time. That's it.

for the sake of it

mindset

Sam: 00:13:01

Yeah. I'm thinking of my hobbies. So my main hobbies, if you can call them

hobies, are going to the gym. I also run. I like reading.

Veronika: 00:13:11

Absolutely, yeap, these are hobies.

Sam: 00:13:12

I play football. And that's really about it. Of things I do regularly, like on a weekly

basis, there are more things that I do outside of that, which I don't do that often,

which I wouldn't really call my hobbies, but all of those aspects, especially

running, I'm always trying to get better. Gym, I'm always trying to get better.

Football is more social and it's not competitive. So it's just a group of friends who

meet every week and we play like a six or seven aside game, but it's still

competitive and I'm very competitive with myself. So if I don't play particularly

well that night, I overthink it and I think, oh, no, I need to do better. And next

week I'll not try extra hard, but I'll think about what mistakes I made last week

and I'll try to improve it because I naturally, I think, want to be good at things,

gggg Useful expressions

and words: for the sake of it mindset

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and I don't like it when I'm bad at things, which I think stops me from maybe

having some hobbies, which I do just for the sake of it, like you do, and have fun.

Maybe something creative would be good for me. Because I have always said that

I'm not a creative person. And if I just accept that it's not going to be good

because I'm not creative, then I won't put pressure on myself to be good. But

because I've always done sports, and I think it's similar to you that sports are

inherently competitive, aren't they? So there is this ingrained desire to be better

just for yourself and also to be better than other people. But yeah, maybe I need

to pick up a creative hobby which would be different.

Veronika: 00:14:52

I think it depends a lot on what you think a hobby is, right? Because for me, right

now, yes, in the past, for me, a hobby would be something where I can prove to

everyone or prove to myself that I can always improve my skills, I can always get

better. So this self improvement aspect of it was huge for me. Right now, I try to

pursue hobies for the intrinsic joy of the activity or its benefits. For example, right

now, recently, I started doing pilates, and the benefits for my body of pilates are

enormous. After every single class, I just feel like a new person. I feel refreshed. I

feel like all my muscles are in the right place, all my bones are in the right place,

everything is perfect. So right now, I always remind myself that I'm doing it

because I love it. The intrinsic joy of it. It's fun. And because it benefits my health

or my physical health or my mental health, that's it. So these are the two things I

keep in mind.

Veronika: 00:16:45

Oh, this is very interesting. I would say it could be, as long as you're approaching

it with a different mindset. Because, for example, I'm going to give you a very

good example. My cousin and her husband, they love to watch movies, but when

they watch movies, they always talk about them. They discuss them. They watch

the best movies that no one heard of. Right. It's something that is extremely

interesting. They talk about those movies, they maybe analyze them, and it's like

they're a part of their life, a very big part of their life. It's not like, because

basically, what I'm trying to say here is that a lot of people, the way they

ggggggggg

Sam: 00:15:58

Yeah. I think a lot of people have. I don't know if people did more hobies

previously, but now the tv has become so accessible and goods television shows,

I think watching tv on streaming services has just become people's automatic

hobby. And it's a good way to bridge the gap between people that you don't know.

And if you have both seen the same television show, it's like a very easy talking

topic. It's almost like it's become like the weather now, hasn't it? Like, oh, have

you seen this? Did you watch the new episode? It's like an easy way to have a

conversation with someone without actually having a real conversation. But did

you think watching tv or watching films is a hobby?

Sam: 00:18:26

Yeah, I think I take a more of a critical approach. Like maybe the people that you

just mentioned. Because I like watching video essays about the films and tv

series afterwards. So I like kind of thinking about the films and tv series after I've

watched them, and I don't like rushing through them. Like, my girlfriend loves

binge watching. And we're watching Avatar, the legend, because they've made a

live action tv show of it.

Sam: 00:18:57

Yeah, they tried it with a film a few years ago and it flopped and it was a big

failure and everyone hated it. I haven't actually watched it because it is supposed

to be so bad and I don't want it to ruin my estimations of the cartoon. But we've

both seen the cartoon, we both enjoy it, and we are really excited about the live

action tv series. And every night we watch one episode and she's like, oh, should

we watch another one? I'm like, no, let's not rush through it because that's what I

like to do with tv series. I don't like to rush it. It's not there just to kind of take

my mind off things. It's more actively engaging in the program or the film. I do

that.

Sam: 00:19:36

I think it's easier to do that with films more because with a tv series, it's

something that you may do continuously. Like every night you might watch two or

three episodes and you may not pay complete attention to it, and you might go

on your phone in between. But with a film, especially if you're going to the

cinema, it's more of an active engagement. But I suppose the beauty of the

hhhhh

Veronika: 00:18:55

I didn't know about that.

Veronika: 00:19:34

Yep, take it slow.

7

approach watching movies and shows is after a long day of work, you hop on the

couch and you just watch a show and you fall asleep. You're not actually actively

g engaged, or maybe you are, but it's just like, it passes through you. Three weeks

later, you don't remember anything. You just watch. You don't remember who the

director is, who the leading actor is, all of those things. But my cousin and her

husband, they know all the names. They know everything. They're like, okay, I

know this director. His style of filming is this one. So it's more than that. Right?

So I feel like if you approach it this way, maybe. I would say it's a hobby. But if

you're just watching a Netflix show, I mean, it's fun. Obviously it's fun, but I

wouldn't say that my hobby is watching shows. I just like watching shows

sometimes, but it's not my hobby.

Internet is that you can have a community of these things now. So you could find

a Reddit page about the film or tv series, and you can discuss it and you can

getinvolved, which previously you probably couldn't do. So it's probably more of a

hobby than it is now, than it ever has been.

Sam: 00:21:16

When you say you've watched a surfing film, you're talking about “Surfs up”.

Sam: 00:21:24

I think it's a cartoon. We have, like, penguins surfing.

Sam: 00:21:28

No, it's not serious.

Sam: 00:21:35

Wow.

Veronika: 00:20:16

Yes, I agree with you. Yeah. And this reminded me of another example from my

life. I really like Formula one, and I do watch this Netflix show, drive to survive.

It's about Formula one. I do watch it because it's a part of my Formula one

experience. Right. So I do follow those, like, Reddit pages and Instagram accounts

to talk about f one. Obviously, I watch the races. So I think the way you guys can

also approach watching movies and tv shows is as a complementary part of your

overall experience. For example, as I was talking about surfing, right? Because I

like surfing. I watched a lot of movies and tv shows and documentaries about

surfing. So the same thing about f one right now, I'm watching a lot of movies

about car racing, this Netflix tv show, so it's the same thing. And obviously, I'm

learning a lot of new things. It's a lot of fun. It's a part of my life. It's a part of my

big hobby. So you can also think about that.

Veronika: 00:21:21

I'm not sure about this one.

Veronika: 00:21:28

Okay.

Veronika: 00:21:31

Yeah. The first one that comes to my mind is “Soul Surfer”.

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Veronika: 00:22:09

Sometimes I do think about it, but I always ask my instructor, like, are there

sharks here? And he's like, no. They always say this. They always say, no, don't

worry about it.

Veronika: 00:22:21

Yeah, they're friendly. Yeah. And I'm like, okay, I believe you. Well, I try not to think

about it too much, because obviously, if you're thinking about it too much and

then you want to surf, you're not going to have a good surfing experience. If you

would rather not surf and be on the shore and you're fine. You're just fine being

on the beach, relaxing, blah, blah. But if you do want to surf, and this is the only

thing stopping you, but it's your dream, you would love to try surfing. I think you

have to work on this fear, like, psychologically, because maybe you're not going to

be fully happy. I don't know. Maybe this is the thing that's going to bring you so

much joy and happiness. For me, it's not like I'm obsessed with surfing. I like to

surf from time to time. Yeah.

Sam: 00:21:48

Wow. You've watched a few.

Sam: 00:21:59

Have you seen “Jaws”?

Sam: 00:22:06

Does that put you off surfing?

Sam: 00:22:20

They're friendly. They don't eat.

Veronika: 00:21:50

Yeah, I watched quite a few of these. Yeah. There are actually a lot of movies

about surfing. If you google them, you're like, oh, my God, there's so many. Yeah.

Veronika: 00:22:01

I think I did. Yeah, I did. I did watch the “Shark attack”. Yes.

Veronika: 00:21:36

Yeah. So it's a very good movie. So “Soul surfer”. I also watched step into liquid.

It's a very interesting movie. And the other one I watched is “Chasing Mavericks”.

vv

10

Sam: 00:24:41

I think I'm probably the wrong person to ask, because like I said before, I'm not

that creative. But there are so many things that you can do, especially locally,

where you can go and do something physical. Because I don't know about you,

Veronika, but I spend a lot of time in front of a screen, if that's my laptop

working, if that's a tv kind of relaxing in the evening or on my phone. So I like to

do things in my free time that aren't behind a screen. So there are plenty of

things. Like you mentioned, pottery is a great one. Or you can make some tiles, or

you can do an art class or a painting class, or you can get some inspiration from

a museum. I think a musical instrument is a very old hobby and something that

I've never learned. I did buy a ukulele when I was in school, but I didn't learn how

to play it like so many people did in my school for some reason. I don't know

why, but there was a ukulele hype for about six weeks.

Sam: 00:25:35

Really?

Veronika: 00:23:49

Yeah, but absolutely. For example, when I snowboard, it's the exact same thing,

because both of your feet are clipped in. So basically, a big fear that people have

is, oh, I'm going to fall. And I don't really. How do I get out of this? Both of my feet

are clipped onto the same board, and I'm just going to fall face down. And that's

it. Yeah. It's better not to think about it and just focus on improving your skill,

your snowboarding skill, your technique, the way you snowboard. Maybe take a

few classes with an instructor so. But I actually wanted to ask you, Sam, if you

have any hobby ideas when it comes to artistic hobbies, for people to tap into

their artsy side?

Veronika: 00:25:33

I have a ukulele, too.

Sam: 00:23:15

Because in football, there's a kind of understanding that if you are scared of

getting injured, especially when you go into a and you don't put, like, 100%

in and you're pulling your foot back a little bit, then you're more likely to get

injured. And I'm sure that the same is with other things, like, for example, skiing.

If you're constantly thinking, I'm going to get injured, I'm going to break my leg,

I'm going to break my leg, you're probably going to break your leg. I don't know if

that's the same with shark attacks. Like, if you're thinking, I'm going to be eaten

by a shark, you'll get eaten by a shark. Probably not.

tackle

Useful expressions

and words: tackle

Veronika: 00:25:35

Yeah. I bought it, like, a few months ago because I wanted to learn to play it.

Yeah, I still haven't, so I'm getting there.

Veronika: 00:27:16

Yeah, it can really help you elevate your , make your writing more

beautiful.

penmanship

Veronika: 00:27:26

Yeah, that's a fancy word, penmanship. Yeah. People use it a lot in calligraphy.

hhhh

Veronika: 00:26:10

Absolutely. Yeah. Another very interesting one that comes to my mind is

calligraphy, because that's actually something that I did in college. I took a few

calligraphy classes because I was learning Chinese. And basically, you don't have

to learn Chinese or Japanese to learn calligraphy. It can be done with any

language. It's a lot of fun. Like, if you want to learn how to write in a very

beautiful way, calligraphy is a great hobby. There are a lot of lessons online on

YouTube. It can be free. You can just learn how to do calligraphy with your pen.

Right. Maybe you want to improve your handwriting, for example, so it's fun. And

then, for example, I remember when I was taking those calligraphy classes, every

time my relative had, I don't know, their birthday, I would handwrite something

beautiful on their birthday card. And everyone was like, oh, my God, Veronika,

your handwriting is so beautiful. I'm like, yep, I took a few calligraphy classes.

11

Sam: 00:25:44

But, yeah, I think a lot of people like music. And now, due to the Internet, you can

learn how to play music by yourself without having to spend money on a tutor or

if you like certain electronic music, there are tutorials how to do that. I'm sure

there are software available of how to make that as well, for free and pretty easy.

So I think a musical instrument or something with your hands would be really

good.

Sam: 00:27:11

Yeah, maybe I need to do that because my handwriting is awful. Embarrassingly

bad.

Sam: 00:27:24

Penmanship? Yeah. I haven't heard that word in a while.

Useful expressions

and words: penmanship

Sam: 00:28:10

Have you ever tried to do a hobby that you used to do while you're younger? Like,

you had a gap from it or like a few years when you hadn't done it previously, and

then you have gone back to it?

Sam: 00:29:43

I've tried two different hobies. So when I was younger I used to play loads of

video games and it sounds quite sad, but it was actually very social and all kind

of the boys in my school almost of them and a lot of my friends played video

games as well. So as soon as we'd finished school at 03:00 we would race home

and we'd all go on our xboxes and we would all join like a party call and we would

play games with each other and chat until it's time for bed, essentially. And I

spent years of my life doing this on different games, like “Halo”, “Free Call of

juicy”, “FIFA”, “Gears of War”, so many different games. And I used to love gaming

just for the sake of it and just obviously.

12

They're always like, yeah, we're going to help you elevate your penmanship, make

your writing extremely beautiful. And something that I also really wanted to learn

more about is different fonts. Different fonts and styles and stay consistent. And

this one font, right? Because for me, in the past, I would always think, oh, my

God. Some people, they choose one font and they replicate it over and over

again. So they're staying extremely consistent. And can I do it? Yes, I could.

Maybe not anymore, because I haven't practiced calligraphy in three years now.

But back then, it was very fun. Yeah, I really liked it, for sure.

Veronika: 00:28:25

I would say maybe it's connected more to the outdoors, because growing up, my

family, my mom and my dad, they love the outdoors. They're very outdoorsy. They

are like adventure seekers. They like hiking, kayaking, camping, stuff like that. So

when I was a kid, I used to hike with them a lot, kayak with them a lot because

my parents have a kayak. It was fun. It was a lot of fun. But obviously when I

went to college, even when I was in high school, I was like, it is not cool anymore

and stuff like that. I didn't want to do it anymore. And so I think right now I'm

definitely coming back to it, especially hiking, maybe not kayaking because it is

challenging. You have to have a boat, you have to know how to row your boat. You

have to be close to a lake, so a lot of things have to happen for you to kayak, but

it is a lot of fun anyway. So hiking for sure. Yeah. Here next to Mexico City, we

have a lot of amazing trails and I love definitely it offers a breath of fresh air. And

when you live in a big city, it's something that you love to experience, I would say.

What about you?

Veronika: 00:30:19

What’s your favorite game?

Veronika: 00:30:19

It’s so funny.

Veronika: 00:32:57

Oh, wow, interesting. Yeah, I think when it comes to video games as a hobby, I

think it could be a great hobby. However, unfortunately, a lot of people approach

video games wrong, just because there are so many things about video games

that can be unhealthy. For example, it can be extremely addicting. That's the first

thing. You can just spend a whole day literally playing instead of, for example,

working. Let's say it's Monday, you have to work, and instead of working, you play

c 13

Sam: 00:30:20

Probably, the ones I mentioned. So I like first person shooters, which is quite

strange because I've never had an interest in apart from war or military, apart

from if I'm kind of learning about it in history. But it is weird to think that a lot of

popular games are based on conflict and you're like, that's weird. But yeah, I

really enjoyed them types of games. I love football as well, so I've always enjoyed

“FIFA”. But yeah, mostly first person shooters. I enjoyed stupid games as well, like

“Mario Kart”. And there was this game called “Viva Pinata”, which I really liked. I

don't know if you know what it is, but basically you are a gardener and you have

to do different things in your garden to attract different animals, which are

pinatas. And there are different tasks that you can do and kind of the better your

garden, the better animals and pinatas you attract. It's very silly, but it's very fun.

Sam: 00:31:27

Yeah. I also loved “Pokemon” as well as a kid, but yeah, I played so many video

games, but then when I've always had a games console, if it's a Nintendo Switch

or an Xbox one or something, Xbox 360. But I took a huge break at kind of

university where it was more casual, where I'd maybe just play the occasional

game of FIFA, which is a football game, but I wouldn't take it seriously. And then

when I got older, like a real adult, I guess I would occasionally go on my Xbox and

think, oh, this game looks interesting. I'll play it single player and just not enjoying

it whatsoever and kind of forcing myself to continue playing. I'm like, what's the

actual point of me doing this? So that was an unsuccessful attempt at starting to

enjoy gaming again. But occasionally there will be a game where I get pretty

addicted to. So there was a strategy game called “Stronghold”, where you have to

invade different people's castles and you have to make sure that your castle is

secure from enemy attacks and stuff. It's very nerdy, but I've redownloaded it on

my laptop again recently and it's all I wanted to do for like a weekend maybe. And

I probably spent a good eight to 10 hours in a weekend playing that. And then my

love for that kind of faded. But yeah, I think that game I still enjoy playing, but

yeah, I found myself feeling strange because I wanted to enjoy gaming, but the

feeling just wasn't there anymore.

Veronika: 00:35:28

Absolutely. 100%. Yeah. I actually wanted to ask you, Sam, because a few months

ago, I think I was listening to this interview. One psychologist was sharing the

best sports for kids to do, and the same thing is for adults. So if you guys want to

try a new hobby, a new sport. So if you have to think about it, what do you think

are two sports for kids and for adults that are really great to do, like, really

healthy for your physical and mental health, what would be your guess?

video games. So when something like this happens, I think it's a problem. I think

it's not a good hobby for sure. But if for you, you love, as you said, you love the

community aspect of it, you just love a specific game. I think it's a great hobby as

long as you approach it with the right mindset. Right. Because also, for example,

many of us, we have sedentary lifestyles, so we sit a lot, we work in front of our

computers and obviously, you also have to account for the fact that if you spend,

like, another 3 hours playing video games and not, for example, moving your body,

maybe it's also not a great thing. But if you know that today is Saturday and

you're going to go for a run later and now you want to play video games, it's

absolutely fine. I don't see a problem here at all.

Sam: 00:34:14

Yeah, 100%. But I've also started playing football again, which I did when I was

really young. All my life, basically, was my main hobby for the majority of my

childhood. Then I stopped in secondary school, then I completely stopped

university, but I started playing again when I was in Valencia. I joined a group as,

like, a social group, and that was pretty casual. And now I play with some friends

in, you know, I've really enjoyed getting back into that. I'm definitely not as, like,

it's hard to compare myself now to my, I don't know, like, ten year old self. I'm

probably better because I could push my ten year old self over pretty easily, I

think, as a 28 year old, but, like, actual skill level, especially relative to other

people, has definitely gone down. So that was a bit disheartening. But you have

muscle memory, so if you are picking up a sport or exercise that you've done

before previously, it's like skiing or snowboarding. You might not go skiing for a

year or two years or three years, and you might be a little bit rusty to begin with,

but your muscles and your mind kind of remembers the motions and the actions,

and you get used to it, don't you? I'm sure the same with surfing as well. It might

take you a day to get used to it again, but once you're. Once you're warmed up,

it's okay.

14

Sam: 00:36:02

Do you have the answers?

Veronika: 00:36:03

I do have the answers. I just want to see what you think these sports are.

Veronika: 00:36:21

Yeah, I’m physically tough.

Veronika: 00:36:41

Yeah, baseball is a good sport. But basically what you said about a sport being a

team sport. Yes. This team or community aspect of it is extremely important. The

reason why I became extremely interested in this topic is because as a kid, I did

gymnastics, an extremely individualistic sport. So when I was thinking about, oh,

what would I like to try right now? Or, for example, for my future kids. Unless my

future kid wants to do gymnastics, I'm not going to take them to gymnastics

because I don't think it's very healthy. But basically, the two sports are rock

climbing and swimming. These are the two sports that are extremely healthy for a

person's mind development, like brain development. Obviously, the community

aspect of it, obviously the swimming in itself, it's an extremely useful skill. Every

time you go to the beach, obviously you want to feel comfortable in the water. It's

safety first. Like every time you're next to the swimming pool, you don't want to

feel afraid of the water. So swimming, it's understandable. But rock climbing was

like, for me, I think for a lot of you guys, and for you, Sam, when I heard I was like,

rock climbing, why? This is so interesting. Obviously, the first aspect of it is team

focus, because you are a part of the team. And the second aspect of it is this

intellectual stimulation. You have to have some kind of intellectual strategy to

win. So obviously you're physically moving. It's an excellent workout. It's very

hard. You can do it indoors, you can do it outdoors. Yeah. You have to solve a lot

of mental problems. You have to use your upper body and think about how to use

it effectively. Right. Because you have to have technique, you have to have strong

mental focus because it's hard. Yeah. What else? Obviously, if you know how to

rock climb, I feel like this just personal aspect of it, like, oh, I know how to rock

climb. You feel great about yourself. You feel like a badass. So. For sure. And

obviously, if you rock climb outside in nature, you get to visit amazing places, so

beautiful areas, amazing rocks and mountains. So, yeah, it's very interesting

sports to try.

Sam: 00:36:09

I don't know. I think any team sport. I was going to say tennis, but tennis is pretty

individual. It's also quite a mentally tough sport to play, especially if you're playing

it professionally or even amateur.

Sam: 00:36:22

Like, if you're playing it competitively, you're alone on the court and it can be

quite long. So it can be quite grueling. But I actually have no idea. Probably. I

don't know if it was American, then it may be some American sports that people

in Europe don't play whatsoever, like baseball or American football or whatever,

but I actually have no idea.

15

16

Veronika: 00:40:07

I would say sport, yeah. How would you explain like ? What is

bouldering and rock climbing?

bouldering

Veronika: 00:40:59

Yeah, that’s great. Like a Spiderman.

Veronika: 00:40:20

Yeah, I think so too. So you're basically bouldering. I also think a bouldering is

when you climb very close to the ground. So you climb very close to the ground.

You don't use any ropes, any harnesses for protection. Obviously there is a mat

for protection if you fall but you're not too high up. Right. Because it's like a

boulder, like if you imagine like a big rope, I mean a big rock, a boulder is big but

it's not a mountain, right?

Sam: 00:39:17

Yeah, I wouldn't have ever guessed that because I would have just focused on

team sports. Sports where you're kind of more obviously a team sport because

rock climbing, you might be climbing with other people but it's still you doing the

climbing. But with a football match or a rugby match for example, you can't really

do anything by yourself. Like you have to rely on the other ten people in your

team to succeed or to go anywhere regardless of how good you are. But yeah I've

done rock climbing a few times when I was at that actual adventure camp and it

is actually pretty fun. And people go bouldering in the UK, it's actually quite a

popular sport now. So in sports centers there's usually a rock climbing wall and

yeah that's actually a pretty popular sport in the UK. Or exercise, is it a sport?

Exercise? Who knows?

Sam: 00:40:12

I don't know the difference. I think bouldering is just inside. That's my

understanding. But I could be very wrong about that.

Sam: 00:40:50

Yeah, exactly. Because you see videos of people climbing backwards like that

sometimes and I'm thinking how the hell do you have the strength to do that

because.

Sam: 00:41:01

Exactly I couldn't do that. But it can get pretty scary. Rock climbing is another

jjjjjjj Useful expressions

and words: bouldering

Veronika: 00:42:48

Absolutely. Yeah. I really like what you just said, sam. Yeah. At the end of the day,

alcohol does nothing good for you. And when it comes to a new hobby and your

sport, obviously, it's very good for your mental health. It's very good for your

physical health. You're trying something new, as Sam just said. You're meeting

new people, you're socializing. So, yeah, I think it's a great place to end this

episode.

Veronika: 00:43:14

No, no. Thank you so much.

Veronika: 00:43:20

Thank you. Bye, guys.

Sam: 00:43:12

Yep. Yeah. Excellent. Do you have anything else to add.

Sam: 00:43:16

Great. Yeah. Thank you so much, Veronika. And thank you, everyone listening.

17

one of those sports like swimming where there's an aspect of fear to it because

some people are scared of heights. So you can quite easily climb up and then

once you look down and you're like uhoh, I've got to get down this thing. That's

when I think people really struggle. Like going up is okay, is easier perhaps, but

then going down is the hard bit because you actually have to look down at the

ground and you feel . Perhaps. But what I wanted to say before we

finish is that hobies is a great way to continue socializing people if you don't want

to socialize around alcohol. Because in the UK a lot of people kind of outside of

work, their main hobby is socializing. If you want to call that hobby. Or maybe a

pastime is probably a better way to describe, you know, if people have a vibrant

friendship group, especially at university, for example, I think a lot of people stop

doing their hobies because the kind of main activity outside of studying, and if

you're unlucky enough to have to work as well, is partying and socializing and

stuff like this, especially in the UK and in other countries as well. And a lot of the

time, social activities revolve around alcohol in the UK. I'm sure it does in other

countries as well. So kind of meeting up with your friends is still important and

going to the pub or going to a bar is not the most fun thing in the world if you're

not drinking, understandably. So doing something like a hobby, like a arts class or

a dance group or a sort of exercise or sport like rock climbing, is a great way to

continue to see your friends and meet new people that's in a sober environment.

vulnerable

Useful expressions

and words: vulnerable

Veronika: 00:43:31

Stay connected by following us on social media. You can find us at

bridging_borders_podcast. Until next time, keep exploring, keep learning, and

keep connecting.