Welcome. To Bridging Borders, the podcast where we try to bridge the gap

between cultures through insightful conversations.

Together, we explore diverse topics from productivity to language learning, all the

while helping you improve your English skills.

Hey, Veronica, how are you?

The Bridging Borders Podcast

Episode 17

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Veronika: 00:00:16

Hello. I'm doing great. I'm very excited for today's episode because we're going to

be talking about language learning and how to become fluent in any language.

Basically our experience, some tips and tricks.

Veronika: 00:00:41

But I think it's know that you had this experience of learning Spanish, of living in

Spain. You still have things to share with us, too. And plus, you're also an English

teacher. So obviously it's going to be a very different approach when it comes to

language learning and especially when it comes to English because you're a

native English speaker. But when it comes to me, obviously I'm not a native

English speaker. My native language is Russian. I've been learning English for a

very long time now, but I started learning English very seriously, probably when I

was 16-17, and I am 24 years old right now. When I was in college, I majored in

the Chinese language, so I spent five years learning Chinese. By the time I

graduated, my Chinese was pretty good. Actually, I would say I was definitely

upper intermediate, which is amazing to have in Chinese. But I think right now, if I

could go back and not choose this major and just focus on the Chinese language

myself, I can do it in three years for like, I can become very good at Chinese.

Three years if I just dedicate a lot of time to it and that's it. But obviously, a few

years ago, I moved to Mexico and that's how I started learning Spanish. So a lot

hh

Sam: 00:00:30

Yeah, I think you're a lot more experienced on this matter than I am, Veronika,

because I can speak English and I can speak the very basics of Spanish.

of different languages, a lot of different experiences. But I always say that even

though the languages might be different, the approach I took is always pretty

much the same because you're learning a language, so, it's all the same, I would

say.

Sam: 00:02:18

So if you were to pick up a new language today, let's say French, how would you

go about the first ? initial steps

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Useful expressions

and words: initial steps later on

Veronika: 00:02:31

So I always say that what I am sharing is just things that works for me, right? And

that's why on my YouTube channel, I try to share a lot of different things, things

that I personally use and things I heard other people use. Because a few days ago

I was listening to this very interesting interview, and the girl there, like the guest

of that interview, right. She said that it is very important to understand that if you

see someone reach a certain point in their life and you're like, okay, if I repeat the

same steps, I'm going to get to where they are at right now. And it's not true,

probably it's not going to happen because you're a different person, you have

different resources, you have a different lifestyle, you live in a different country,

et cetera, et cetera. So you have to understand that there are so many different

tools and steps and strategies, and it's great to know all of them, but then you

have to choose the ones that you think are going to work for you. So again,

answering your question, if I were to start learning French right now, usually what

I do is the very first thing. I focus on the Alphabet of the language. So that's like

my first step in every single language, at least right now, I make sure I know how

to pronounce all the sounds of this language. That's the very first step. If I'm not

sure how to say a certain letter in the Alphabet or how to make a certain sound, I

book a class with a teacher. I try to ask them, oh, can you explain to me how to

make this sound? For example, in French, I probably would have difficulty with

the sound like Veronika or something. So probably I will have to work on that,

because just understanding the pronunciation, understanding how the sounds of

the language work is very important. And that's why a lot of people have

problems , because they didn't spend enough time doing it at the very

beginning. They're like, oh, I'm not sure. What about this sound? What about that

sound? But I think it's important, and it's important to understand that a

language is going to have sounds that are completely new to you. Like, not trying

to compare the sounds to your native language and be like, oh, the sound. The in

English sounds like this in my native language. It doesn't. It's a new sound, a

completely new sound. Forget about your native language here. So that would be

my first step. The next step that I always personally do is I focus on the most

common words in this language. I download this list of, like, 600 most common

words in this language, and I memorize all of them using «Anki», the space

later on

hhhhhh

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repetition technology. Some people say, don't do that, and I have heard this

opinion as well, just because it's a waste of time, like, you're trying to memorize

all these words, and if you're actively engaged with the language, you are going to

learn all of these common words, but I find that it works for me and it really

speeds up the whole process. If I want it to be faster and more effective, I do

that. And then I just get like a grammar book, a regular, just one grammar book.

And sometimes I go through every single rule kind of like slowly, and then I just

focus on the topics that I'm interested in. If I'm interested in sports, I subscribe

to a bunch of YouTube channels in French. Right. Let's say where people talk

about sports, they make vlogs. I basically try to surround myself with the

language as much as possible. So, yeah, this is a rough picture.

Sam: 00:06:30

Yeah. You just mentioned kind of increasing or starting to have some type of input

in that language. So that could be reading a book or listening to a podcast or

maybe watching a video, watching TV or whatever. Do you think that's good for a

beginner? Because they're probably not going to understand 90% of it, for

example. So I remember when I was learning Spanish, I went onto the Spanish

Netflix or found some things that were kind of. The audio was in Spanish and I

actually settled on «Pokemon» because I thought it'd be for children, so it'd be a

little bit easier to understand. But I think maybe watching real people rather than

cartoons might be better. But I don't know if there's any difference, actually. And I

watched them with subtitles because I think the academic literature or the

leading research suggests that if you want to watch TV when learning a language,

is best to have it with subtitles and the original language, some people do the

opposite where they kind of have the sound. Imagine you're learning English.

You'd have the sound in English, but you'd have your native language in the

subtitle so you can understand everything.

Sam: 00:07:40

That I don't think is a good idea. So it's best not to understand everything, but

just kind of just watch it anyway. I think that's really good for upper intermediates

and especially advanced level learners. Do you think that's useful for beginners?

Because like I said, they don't understand majority of it.

Veronika: 00:07:39

Don't do that.

Veronika: 00:08:00

Yeah. So I have a very good answer here. It doesn't matter where you're at in your

language learning journey, beginner, intermediate, advanced. You always have to

remember this concept of comprehensible input. Not just input, but

comprehensible input. What does it mean? You think of your current level in this

bb

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language. Let's say my current level in this language is one so comprehensible

input for me will be one plus one. So, like, you always have to do plus one. If

you're watching a show and you're realizing that this show is plus ten to your

current level, it is not for you to watch. You have to click off, stop watching it.

Just forget about it. Every single time you approach a new resource, whether it's

a book, an audiobook, a YouTube video, always ask yourself this question, is it

plus one to my current level? Is it challenging? But not too much if you find it

plus ten, plus 20. No, don't do that unless you have just crazy self discipline and

will and you're going to do it. But I feel like at one point you're going to get really

tired and you're going to just lose the fun in learning a language. You're going to

find it boring. You're just going to be like, I don't want to do it anymore. It doesn't

make sense. It's so difficult. And that's how people come to me and they tell me,

Veronica, English learning is difficult just because you're using the wrong

resources. You're choosing them based on this principle of my current level plus

ten. And of course, if I choose something in Spanish, that's going to be my

current level plus ten. I'm going to give up, probably. I'm going to feel very

demotivated and I feel like I'm a failure. Like I don't understand anything and

that's not how I want to feel. So that's why, for example, at the very beginning,

what I usually do, what I did with Spanish, is I subscribed to a bunch of YouTube

channels where people would teach beginners. So, like, channels that are more

like teaching you something, right. They will teach you some very basic grammar

rules or some common words in Spanish. And usually the whole video would be

in English, maybe a few words in Spanish, and I'm like, okay, these are new

words. I love it. Like some new sentences. There are actually podcasts dedicated

to beginners in a lot of different languages. Like beginners in Spanish or

beginners in French or in English, especially in English. When it comes to English,

there's so many resources right now. So you will definitely find it. Yeah. So then I

would just move up if I feel like, okay, I'm ready to watch a vlog. A vlog by native

speaker. I try to watch it, and then if I see that it's still a little bit too hard, I'm

like, okay, let me wait a little bit. Maybe I need to learn more vocabulary, or

maybe I need to improve my grammar to be able to understand what they're

saying, but most likely it's vocabulary. That's something that really hinders your

comprehension. That's why focusing on vocabulary is important.

Veronika: 00:11:19

Yes.

Sam: 00:11:13

Yeah, I think kind of reading or listening to things with visual context is really

useful as well.

Sam: 00:11:20

So instead of listening to a podcast, if you're a beginner, listening to a podcast is

going to be so difficult because if you don't understand the majority of it, you've

nn

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Useful expressions

and words: references

got no context of what they're actually speaking about. You might have a title, but

that's about it. After, like, one or two sentences, you're gone. So we have a TV

show, some TV shows, like the reason I watched «Pokemon», for example, I could

understand what was going on even if I didn't understand a word. Like, I could

just put it on a random language or even put it silent, probably. Maybe with a

language, I can hear the tone, so I can guess some emotion or something. But

even if I don't understand, I still have a grasp of the story and what's going on

and how people feel. And then you can associate kind of the words with the

context, which I think is quite useful, don't strictly do that, but you have a better

idea of what they're actually saying. So I think I read once that friends is the best

TV show that you can watch in English. I don't know if this is true or not, but I've

read it somewhere, because even if you can tell the emotions on the face of all

the characters, and you can follow the storylines pretty easily without

understanding kind of a word of what they're actually saying. But because it's

American, Americans are quite over the top with their emotions sometimes

especially. Well, I'm talking relative to British people. You can kind of follow how

they're feeling, the storylines, the problems with the characters, just on the basis

of their kind of movements, their body movements, their face and interactions

and stuff like that. So, yeah, find it. I think TV is probably better than podcasts for

beginners.

Veronika: 00:12:57

Absolutely. I would say that friends is a good TV show, but if you're a complete

beginner, probably it's going to be hard for you to understand. Yeah. Because they

do use a lot of idioms, a lot of phrasal verbs. I remember when I was watching

friends, I don't have this notebook anymore, but I had a full notebook with notes

with new vocabulary from friends. And at that time, I thought my English was

pretty good, and I was like, okay, what about this? I think for me, what was very

frustrating when I was watching friends is not so much the vocabulary they were

using, but more the cultural context of everything. Because I still remember the

day when I was watching the episode about the ball drop in New York City, how

for New Year's, they have this ball that drops on the main square and everyone is

obsessed with it. They want to see it. And first, when I heard it, I remember

watching this episode and I was like, what are they talking about? What ball?

What is going on? I have zero cultural context because back then I lived in Russia.

I was like, what is going on? And I think the more you start feeling like you're not

in the context of things. I started feeling very frustrated at one point because

they were making a lot of to famous people in the states, some, I

don't know, football players and stuff like that. And I was like, is it funny? Should

I laugh? What is going on? So I feel like in those moments, it's important to be

kind to yourself and understand that it's fine. You're not going to understand

everything about this culture because you were not born into this culture, you

references

nnn

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Veronika: 00:15:38

I think it's important to understand why you're doing this. So what is your

motivation behind it? Because if you want to find a tutor or a language school,

just because you want to put this responsibility on another person of learning

this language, you want to say, okay, I have a teacher now, so I'm going to learn

the language. Kind of like putting the responsibility on your teacher instead of

becoming responsible for your language, learning yourself, or, like, on the

language school, saying things like, yeah, I wasn't able to learn English because

my language school was not that great, or because my english teacher was not

that great. That's why I didn't learn English. Nah, it's an . It's one of the

biggest excuses out there. I would say that it is useful. I did go to a language

school once in English because I really wanted to experience the sense of

community and that's why I went there. Because basically what happens is like,

you go there, you're present in a classroom, you're learning something with a

teacher. I would say in terms of pace, it can be a lot more effective to learn at

home because you don't have to spend time traveling. Several commuting. I

mean, I'm commuting to your language school. But for me, I just really wanted to

feel like I'm a part of this community of students who are learning English. Like I

have a teacher who I can physically see in a classroom and ask them all the

questions. So that's why I was going there. I wasn't going there to learn English

super fast. No, because I could have learned the whole material probably three

times faster on my own. So that's when it comes to language skills. When it

comes to just having a teacher, for example, online, taking classes, it can be

great. Again, depends on what you want. If you want to speak to someone, speak

to someone who's going to correct you. If you have certain questions, then it's

great, it's amazing. But again, just please don't put the responsibility of learning a

foreign language on your teacher and saying things like, my teacher didn't teach

excuse

hh

Sam: 00:14:47

Yeah. Comedy programs and films are actually probably the most difficult to

understand because comedy is a completely different kind of part of language,

which I think is a lot more difficult for people to understand if you're not a native

speaker because of what you just said, the cultural context, and also a lot of

references, informal words, slang. Grammar isn't always perfect, for example, so

it's hard to understand it. But, yeah, I think you're right. Do you think it's

important for people to get a tutor from the start? Obviously, you can learn a

language by yourself. Absolutely doable. But if someone has the time and they

have the money, do you think it's worthwhile going to a language school or maybe

having a private tutor? Do you think that's worthwhile at the beginner stage?

were not raised there. So it's absolutely okay. Just enjoy it. Laugh if you want to

laugh. If you don't want to laugh, it's fine. So just be more kind to yourself.

Useful expressions

and words: excuse

Sam: 00:18:10

Yeah, 100%. I agree. And if you are a beginner, I'd probably recommend finding a

tutor that speaks your native language because if you are a beginner.

Sam: 00:18:20

For example, if someone is Russian and they come to me and they have a class

with me and I speak no Russian and they're a beginner English, we're just going

to be sitting in the classroom staring at each other, not being able to

communicate.

Sam: 00:18:33

Yeah, exactly. I don't recommend that. So you don't have to do that if you're an

upper mint intermediate. So, for example, I speak the very basics of Spanish. I

don't speak any other languages. I have students from all over the world. So

when you're in an upper intermediate level or even intermediate, it's absolutely

doable. But for beginner, definitely choose someone who can speak your native

language.

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me this, and that's why I don't know about this. No, the teacher is there to maybe

motivate you, to give you feedback, to help you if you have a problem and stuff

like that, and everything else you can do in your own, you are still responsible for

how fast you're learning a foreign language.

Veronika: 00:18:18

Yes, very good point.

Veronika: 00:18:32

Hello... Hello.

Veronika: 00:18:58

Yes. And that's, I think, where a teacher who speaks your native language will be

great for you. You will benefit from this interaction so freaking much just because

sometimes you're like, okay, I didn't quite understand what you meant. Can you

say it in my native language now so that I'm sure, okay, this is what it is. Yeah, but

then once you're progressing, the goal is to eliminate the language completely,

your native language, from your learning. So when you learn grammar, vocabulary

has to be without your native language, like all the new words you're memorizing.

Don't use your native language. Try to use pictures if it's possible. Try to use

definitions in this language if it's possible. When you're progressing, especially like

intermediate, advanced, don't translate. Try to stop translating as much as

possible. It's not going to do you any good. The point is to make your brain think

only in this language, when you're speaking this language, to access all of these

hh

words in this new foreign language and you don't want to create the connection

of a cat is this word in my native language and then the picture of a cat? No, it

has to be a picture of a cat. And immediately the word cat in English, the same

thing in Spanish. Now, when I look at a cat, if I want to think in Spanish, I

immediately think it's a “gato”. I don't think, okay, it's a cat or what is it in my

native language? Okay, what is it in Spanish now? No, you're trying to make the

connection shorter so that your brain access the information faster.

Sam: 00:20:38

Yeah, that's something I'm always doing with my students who are a bit of a

lower level. So around the intermediate or kind of just bordering the upper

intermediate, a lot of them still try to translate. Maybe when they're trying to

explain a difficult concept or we're talking about something a little bit more

complicated and they're thinking, okay, how do I say this in English? And I think,

how do I say this in my native language? And then I'll translate that into English.

But often, as you definitely know, the direct translations mostly come out wrong.

Sam: 00:21:09

If you can think about it in the language you're learning, it's best to do it like that.

But sometimes it's always necessary.

Sam: 00:22:09

Yeah. For example, in Spanish they say take a drink, but in English we say have a

drink. And if you're trying to speak English and you're saying, should we take a

coffee or a beer? People will be like, what? What do you mean, take it? Like take

it away from the coffee shop or the pub.

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Veronika: 00:21:09

Exactly.

Veronika: 00:21:17

And that's recently what I've started to experience with Spanish. Because

sometimes when I say things in Spanish, they sound like it's English-Spanish

because I'm learning. And that's actually this beauty of learning foreign languages

because at one point you can use your foreign language as a base for learning a

new language. So my spanish learning happens exclusively with the help of

English. If I need English, I don't even know how to say certain grammatical things

in Russian, let's say like Spanish related. So it's also cool because this way I'm

learning Spanish and I'm kind of practicing my English at the same time. Yeah. So

I really like it. Like this experience of just stacking your languages at one point.

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Veronika: 00:24:25

Yeah, I completely agree with you. And I think also what a lot of people

experience is they try to think, okay, I'm learning a new language, so where should

I start? I should start with learning the basics and then I should move on to

something more difficult. But I always say that the basics, they don't exist. What

do you need in this language? Why do you need to learn this language? For

example, my goal in Spanish was to communicate with people outside to talk to

my friends in Spanish. So the very first thing I remember I learned was how to

order “Matcha” at like a coffee shop. And some people would say, it is not basics.

Why do you need to know how to say, like, matcha and stuff like that? But I do. I

mean, it's the exact same word, but anyway, it's just like, this is what I need and

that's why I'm learning this language. And I don't want to know how to say a

giraffe in Spanish. Well, maybe at one point I will have to learn this word. But at

the very beginning of my journey, that was not my priority. I wasn't going to zoos, I

Sam: 00:23:01

Yeah, I forgot about that one. That's a good example as well. One last tip from me

on this beginner stage is to speak from the very beginning, even if it's the very

basics, because I've met so many students, especially when I was teaching in

Spain in vocational college, I taught loads of like 18-19 year olds just before

they're going to university or going to get a job. And I had to speak English with

them. That was basically my job there. And to help them speak English because a

lot of them could read English fine, listening a little bit more difficult, but they

just never spoke it because in their actual formal setting of learning English in

school, a lot of the practice wasn't speaking practice. And I know people who go

on «Duolingo», for example, and they've got 100 days of Duolingo in whatever

language, and you ask them to say like two sentences and they've never really

practiced it, so they can't, and then they go on holiday and you're actually faced

with, oh, I have to speak this language that I've been learning for a while. But if

you haven't actually spoken it, it's a completely different skill of actually reading

and understanding something and then having to formulate it in your head to

actually say it out loud and even if you practice through writing, because

listening, reading is input, kind of writing, speaking is output. And you could think,

oh, I'll just write loads because that's basically speaking, but completely different

skill as well.

Veronika: 00:22:24

Yeah. And I also noticed like a lot of people here in Mexico say, first when I didn't

know any Spanish, I was like, interesting. I wonder why they say it. And now I

know why. So basically what they do here is a lot of people here say I have 24

years old in English because in Spanish it's the verb to have. And now I know. And

now I understand those people a lot more because of that. You kind of have this

next level of understanding. You're like, oh, I get what you mean. I understand

why you're saying it this way because of the influence of your native language.

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Sam: 00:26:12

Yeah. I think that approach is called task based learning, where you're just

learning. I think that's true, where you're just learning fractal things that you

actually genuinely need, rather than learning things for a purpose like passing an

exam so for example, if you're doing the IELTS or whatever, you have to learn the

format of the IELTS and you just maybe just be focusing on the vocabulary and

the language and certain discussion questions for that. But if you imagine you

just smash the IELTS exam, you get the perfect score. You can now go to the

university of the job. But then you go to university and you sit down at a table

with a few of the students and you're like, hold on a minute. I've never actually

spoken in a social setting, people my age in English or any language you're

learning. So it's really important to actually learn and focus the basics maybe are

important, not what you said, like animals is kind of silly that we kind of push

this on people. We think, okay, learn the colors...

Sam: 00:27:11

How often do you actually really need to need that? Yeah, I think learning

languages kind of for the actual use case of when you're going to use it is really

important. Okay, so that's what someone should do if they're kind of starting to

learn a new language. I can imagine most people listening to this podcast are an

intermediate level in English. Like minimum, maybe some people are advanced

upper intermediates. Some people get stuck at this stage where they feel like

they've been an intermediate for years and they just can't get to that next level. I

know these kind of actual categories are a bit vague, and some people classify

themselves as an advanced and they're really an intermediate. They're not really

that important in my opinion. But some people feel like they get to an

intermediate level and they just . So do you have any tips for people of

kind of actually taking the language level to the next stage?

get stuck

Veronika: 00:27:09

Learn the animals, the months. Exactly.

Useful expressions

and words: get stuck

wasn't interacting with giraffes, you know what I mean? So when it comes to

time and time constraints and how it has to be extremely relevant to your life,

because those are the questions that people are going to be asking you, where

are you from? What do you do for work? What do you like and stuff like that,

what are you doing your free time? And if you know how to say all the different

colors in this world, in this language, but you don't know how to describe what

you do for a living. Yeah, that's where people experience a lot of difficulties.

Veronika: 00:28:11

Yeah, so I think the first thing, what we kind of just talked about a little bit is

your native language. Just completely stop using your native language

when you interact with the language you want to learn. Probably one of the

reasons why you're still stuck is because you're still translating everything.

Everything has to be translated. You're afraid that you're not going to understand,

but just try to, especially right now with AI, everything is so much simpler if you're

learning a new word, even if it's extremely difficult, you feel like you need your

native language. No, you don't just use chat GPT and ask chat GPT, «Сan you

please explain this word to me very simply?» Like extremely simply. And it's going

to do the job really well because unfortunately, a lot of dictionaries out there,

they do use a lot of complicated words. And I always say, if you're trying to

memorize a word, make sure the definition of this word includes all the words

that you know, because, you know, sometimes what happens is you try to

understand what the word, I don't know, something more like difficult, like

, this color, like what does it mean? And the definition includes the

color that you also don't know. And of course you're not going to memorize it. But

when it comes to something visual, like a color, for example, you don't even need

a picture, like, see something that is turquoise. Maybe you have like a notebook

that's turquoise on your table and you create a sentence like, oh, my favorite

notebook is this color and stuff like that. So definitely this thing, just stop

translating, stop using your language. And I would say the second thing is

something that helped me a lot, is just writing down a list of everything you're

interested in in your life. Like what are the things that you do every single day, the

things you're interested in. Let's say you really like boxing, like this is your

passion. You practice boxing. You love watching it on TV. So what you do is you

kind of explore this topic very deeply. Instead of kind of like going very broad, you

start going very deep on this topic and you do everything in the language that you

want to learn. You start following YouTubers that talk about boxing. You start

reading newspaper articles that talk about boxing in this specific language, in

your target language. Yeah, this is what I did with nutrition because at one point

in my life I got so interested, just sucked into this topic of nutrition, and I was

learning everything in English. And naturally I memorized so many words, so many

diseases and illnesses and different minerals, micronutrients and stuff like that.

It just happened naturally because I was in this environment. I created this

environment for myself. Yeah, I personally find it extremely useful. What are the

things that you think might be useful for the students that probably for sure you

have those students who are stuck at this intermediate level. What do you think

helps them?

ditching

turquoise

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Useful expressions

and words: ditching turquoise volume

Sam: 00:31:25

I think just increasing the . I think it's almost a little bit like anything else. volume

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Veronika: 00:34:45

Me too.

I think if you're kind of at a specific stage, maybe you're not being as efficient as

you could be when you're doing the actual work of learning a language, if you

want to call it work. Or you could just increase the volume, like increase the

input and also increase the output. So imagine if you have an english class once

a week and that's it. Just 1 hour of English, and you're only thinking in English

once a week. If you just kind of do that by ten X that and you do 10 hours of

English per week, you're going to increase. And you don't have to do that in 10

hours of classes. You could listen to two podcasts a week. You could watch some

TV in English, just mix it up and make it easy. Obviously, you don't need to ten X

it. That's an extreme example. But even if you just double the amount by doing an

extra hour, then you're just going to be living in the english world in your brain a

lot more than you are in your native language or whatever language you're

learning. I think that's what I usually recommend for my students when I have a

trial class with them. I often ask them, so how much do you engage in English

per day on average and per week? How often are you listening to someone speak

English? How often are you speaking English? How often are you reading English?

Do you watch any TV in English? Podcasts in English? I'm always thinking about

ways of, like you said, kind of finding subjects that they enjoy. So I ask them that

likes hobbies, interests, what they do in their free time, what do they actually

enjoy consuming in their native language and just finding material which will just

increase their input in that chosen language, which I think is really useful because

I've had so many students where I just send them. This is the actual nice thing

about having a tutor in that native language is that you probably don't have that

much knowledge of the resources available. So because I live in the UK and I'm

British, some people who are learning English come to me and they're saying I'm

interested in business or whatever. They don't maybe know some of the podcasts

or YouTube channels or TV shows that are in English and they produce a lot of TV

shows in England. So I can tell them about «Dragon's Den», for example, where

an entrepreneur comes into the boardroom and gives a pitch and asks for an

investment. Know some entrepreneurs themselves and they talk about business.

And if someone is interested in business and entrepreneurship, then this is a

great TV program for them. But it's in the UK and I don't think most people

outside the UK know what this is. And you get wide range of British accents on

there. So that's actually one of the kind of good points about having tutor in your

chosen language that you're learning is because it depends who they are. I kind of

watch a lot of, I'm aware of a lot of TV and podcasts and films and stuff. So I'm

able to kind of recommend a lot of things. And, for example, one of my students

came to me and said, sam, I've got Scottish colleagues and I really struggle to

understand them. I'm like, don't worry. I struggle to understand, too.

13

Useful expressions

and words: weakness get rid

Sam: 00:34:46

Yeah, but I know a lot of Scottish, famous Scottish people, stand up comedians,

kind of famous actors and stuff. And I know who they are, and I can send them,

like, three videos a week of someone with a Scottish accent, and they're

increasing their input of listening to them and trying to understand them. So

that's one of the ways that I help people kind of get to the next level. I think

having a tutor is I'm not just kind of advertising my job now, but.

Sam: 00:35:23

Or just like, telling people, you need a tutor. You don't, but it can help when you

get to that kind of intermediate stage, because you might have a weakness in

your language, and it's really important to identify that and kind of

improve it. So I've had so many students who are upper intermediate, but they

struggle with different things. Some people, they struggle with pronunciation

because they're speaking English with the kind of the mouth shapes and the

tongue movements that they speak in their native language. So there's a really

good YouTube channel. I'll actually maybe link it in the bio, who does videos. It's

like, why do Chinese people sound Chinese? Or why do Italian people sound

Italian?

weakness

Sam: 00:35:57

The specific sounds in their native language, which are hard to kind of say or kind

of speak when you're speaking English, and they identify those sounds and they

give examples. It's really good. And some people really struggle with that. So a

french person, if I have, like, a french person, will have specific problems that a

Chinese person might not. And usually I tailor their kind of the pronunciation

exercises, often with chat GBT or kind of google, if I'm feeling old school, to find

exercises specifically tailored for them which can help them sound not kind of

accent is a bit of a weird one because some people want to eradicate their

accents. So, for example, you might have wanted to of your Russian

accent. Or. I know people who don't want to sound French. They don't want to

sound Spanish. I had a class with someone once, and they're like, I've got a

presentation in a week and I want to sound British. And I'm like, you sound so

Spanish right now, that's impossible. And I was like, I'm sorry, but your goal is not

get rid

Veronika: 00:35:22

No! Go ahead, you should.

Veronika: 00:35:55

Oh, this is very interesting.

Veronika: 00:37:49

Yeah, absolutely. No, I like what you said about having realistic goals. Yeah,

something you mentioned. It's also extremely important. We have a presentation

next week. If you want to sound like a completely different person. I mean, you

can for sure improve in a week, but not just that extent. So having realistic goals

is extremely important. Yeah, for sure, and when it comes to your accent, I would

say I think it's important when you start learning a language to understand what

kind of accent you're interested in, to find the right resources. Because, for

example, for me, with Spanish, I knew that because I live in Mexico, I want to

learn Mexican Spanish. At least begin with it, because obviously when you start

improving, you get to intermediate advanced level, then you can start listening to

a lot of different accents in Spanish. But at the very beginning, you kind of have

to stick to something to make it easier for you. That's what I did with English. I

chose the American accent because if I wanted to sound American and British

and learn Scottish accent. Yeah, I would feel extremely overwhelmed, because.

Veronika: 00:39:18

Yeah, it's very interesting because when I talk to Americans, they're always very

interested in where I'm from, because once I start talking to them, they're like,

yeah, I can hear that you're not a native speaker, but I can you. Like,

where are you from? You know, like, «Guess!». Yeah. They can never guess. Never.

It's very funny. Sometimes they try to guess based on my appearance. They're

like, oh, you look Slavic. You're probably from eastern Europe, but now it's

different. I would say what helped me a lot is just doing, practicing a lot. That's

what I did like, learning all the rules and practicing over and over and over again.

pinpoint

bb

realistic whatsoever. And I don't think it's bad if someone sounds Chinese or if

someone sounds Russian or someone sounds Italian. I actually like it when

people have that kind of native accent, speaking different languages. But

sometimes it can be a problem when it kind of gets in the way of people

understanding them. But some people have problems with confidence, some

people have problems with listening. So once you get to that intermediate stage,

it is useful to have a tutor. Not permanently, but even if someone just. If you just

spend an hour with them and you're like, I'm going to pay you for an hour, can

you just kind of assess my English and tell me what my weaknesses are, and

then you can go on your own. So I think just finding out what your weaknesses

are and then strengthening those is a really good idea.

14

Sam: 00:39:05

If I heard you speak, I would never guess that you're from Russia. So how did you

develop your English accent and get rid of your native kind of sounding accents?

Useful expressions

and words: pinpoint

Veronika: 00:42:40

Yes, for sure.

Sam: 00:42:32

Yeah, I think that's really good advice. And a lot of people do have an unhealthy

relationship with their accent when speaking English, from my experience,

anyway.

Sam: 00:42:40

The important thing is not complete accent. You know, maybe someone's dream

goal is to sound very posh or like Harry Potter. Like someone from Harry Potter or

Downton Abbey or. American.

15

Useful expressions

and words: eradicating dumb

It's still like a journey. I'm still improving my accent, still learning new things. If

you watch my YouTube videos. Two years ago, I sounded very different than I do

right now just because I'm always working on my accent. I'm always trying to

learn something new and I always try to mimic Americans when I notice they use

a special phrase or the way they pronounce a certain sound. I don't know.

Remember when one day I noticed how some Americans say «Groceries» instead

of «Groceries», like the «sh» kind of sound, and I was like, groceries, groceries.

Interesting. So those little things, when you notice them, it's fun. I really like it. I

think, because, I don't know, at one point, I just really wanted to sound American.

So I think I actually had this goal of my accent. Probably was not very

healthy because you can't start sounding like a different person in a week or a

month or maybe even a year. I don't know how long it takes. I still don't sound

100% American. So I feel like at one point I just realized that the way I

approached accent training and language learning was unhealthy and was not

sustainable, and I had to change something about that. And once I did, I became

a lot happier. Now I'm a lot happier. When I talk to Americans, if they say

something that I don't know, I ask and I don't feel like I am . What's

something that a lot of language learners feel. I don't feel like I'm less than them.

Okay. I'm like, «Oh, this is a cool phrase. Can you explain what it means?» Or, «Oh,

this was like a funny joke, but I didn't quite catch it because it included

something cultural». «Can you explain it to me?», and I feel like when I do it this

way, I just feel so much happier because I don't have to pretend like I know

everything, like I understand everything in English. No, I don't because it's not my

native language. I didn't grow up in the states, so it just makes me feel so much

calmer and peaceful and at peace. At peace when I just understand that it's fine.

I don't know certain words and it's totally okay.

eradicating

dumb

16

Veronika: 00:42:54

Yes, exactly, British English.

Veronika: 00:43:29

Yeah, absolutely. Being kind to yourself, not trying to reach this perfect version.

Perfectionism and stuff like that. No, just like learning a language, trying to make

it fun. And, yeah, if you want to improve your accent, please do. But don't feel like

if you can't pronounce a certain sound, you're bad or you're a failure or something

is not working out. You will understand it. I've struggled a lot with this particular,

one particular grammar rule in Spanish. And for the longest time, I just could not

understand the difference between two grammar rules. Every single conversation,

I would mix them up. Every single class with my teacher. I was just like, I just

want to say it this way. I don't understand why native speakers have to say it this

way. And as time went by now, like yesterday, I think I opened my grammar book

and I was like, I get it now. Just something changes and maybe it's not the time

yet and at one point, you will understand it better. You will be able to produce the

sound. Just and be patient. give it time

Sam: 00:42:55

Yeah, that's pretty good, actually. More british than me, but yeah, I think just so

people can understand you, that's the goal really, isn't it? Unless you think that

people are you or stereotyping you due to your accent, then maybe that's

just problem that you might have internally. But if you do feel like that could be a

problem in your industry or whatever, then you might want to try and do accent

reduction even further. But, who knows? It's obviously just personal and people's

preferences.

judging

Sam: 00:44:46

Yeah. So immerse yourself in a language is a good tip, especially going kind of to

the country. So if you're learning English, visiting England or United States or

Australia or New Zealand or South Africa or somewhere like that is really useful.

Even. It's just a holiday. It could be fun. And there are definitely experiences that

you can go on where you kind of stay with other people learning that language,

which could be really fun. Or you can do it at home by changing your phone

settings, for example, or changing the settings on your computer or all your

devices and watching films and increasing your input or content or whatever you

want to call it. So that getting a tutor, being kind to yourself, I think they're all

pretty good tips for getting to that kind of next level. If you feel like you are stuck.

Do you have anything final to add, Veronika?

Useful expressions

and words: judging give it time

Veronika: 00:45:37

No, I think that's it. Yeah, I think we shared everything. Just remember, if you're

choosing a resource, always ask yourself this question, «Is it plus one to my

current level?» If it's anything higher, not the resource for you to use. Well, unless

you love the pain, you love the struggle, you love the grind.

Veronika: 00:46:06

Yeah, thank you. Thank you so much. Have a great day. Bye.

Sam: 00:45:57

Being confused, not understanding. Yep. Okay. Well, hope everyone found that

useful. And thank you, Veronika.

17

Veronika: 00:46:19

Stay connected by following us on social media. You can find us at

bridging_borders_podcast. Until next time, keep exploring, keep learning, and

keep connecting.

Sam: 00:46:10

Thank you for joining us on this episode of Bridging the Borders. If you enjoyed

the conversation, be sure to subscribe to the podcast for more useful insights.